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Fluffy Sue
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 10070
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| Necessity of flying? |
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I was wondering about this.. Because there are many people against clipping their bird's wings as birds were meant to fly. (The characteristic of birds would be that they are able to FLY!)
I don't want to talk people into clipping their bird with this thread, it's just to question the 'necessity' of flight!
I saw a program on tv which was about birds. It showed that in an area without predators (For example, the Galapagos islands, New Zealand) birds loose their ability to fly after some time.
Flying (according to this documentary) takes a lot of energy so when it's not necessary anymore to avoid predators, the ability of flight is no longer necessary..
I DO agree that flying birds are great to see.. 
But, is it necessary for our birds to be able to fly, as we take away (I hope) most dangers that they would normally have? |
Monday September 12, 2005 12:56 pm |
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Cheeta
Moderator
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 7967
Location: Australia |
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I don't really have a strong opinion on either side of wing clipping. Apollo came to me clipped, but badly clipped, so he was still able to fly. I'm waiting for all his feathers to grow back nicely so i can get a proper trim.
Apollo would rather walk thn fly really. He would fly places if he thinks he's going to get there quicker or if he knows he has to get away from me fast coz he's found a piece of something that isn't suppose to have and is trying to carry it away from me. Otherwise I find it that he would rather just stay in one area or walk to the next!!
I think it's nice for bird to fly, but I don't think it's necesarry that they have their flight ability. Now in saying that i'll always say that birds DO need to learn how to fly properly when fledge before their wings are trimmed, as this does help them with coordination and also developing muscles around the chest and wing area. I heard that if a bird doesnt learn to fly before being clipped it could developed behavioural problems later in life. Not sure how true that is though. |
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Monday September 12, 2005 1:29 pm |
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fionam
Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 1757
Location: Surrey, UK |
I am the same as Bih,
But I know that my Hubby wants Pi to be fully flighted - I am letting him get all his flight feathers back as ALL his feathers were really hard clipped...
So I will see how his behaviour is when this happens (not long now I hope)
I agree that it is not nessecery to have them flighted....
Fi |
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Monday September 12, 2005 1:50 pm |
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Josephine
Just hatched
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia |
Hm, I think birds shouldn't be wingclipped, because they need excersise and they need to ventilate their loungs and keep fit, well with flying they can do that. And that means healthy bird.
If you look from human's perspective, man has always wanted to fly because this meant freedom for him, so why take away this freedom from birds. |
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Monday September 12, 2005 7:11 pm |
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Fluffy Sue
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 10070
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Nice to read all kinds of opinions..
Josephine, I don't want to talk you into wingclipping, but.. A friend of mine who studies to become a vet, works as an assistent and she says that wingclipped birds (pets) usually are in better condition than fully flighted birds.
Her explanation was this: Birds have little space to exercise and fly (at least, the large ones) in our homes, and it takes more effort for clipped birds to flutter down to the ground without 'falling down hard' than for fully flighted birds.
I don't want to advocate for clipping wings, but I was just wondering about this.. And would parrots, let's say if we'd clip their wings for millions of years, loose their ability to fly? |
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Monday September 12, 2005 7:16 pm |
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Josephine
Just hatched
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia |
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Fluffy Sue, that is a good point there. But in better condition, did you mean as not broken bones and things like that? Because I think birds get fatter if they don't fly, and that is what I meant by health.
Well I don't know, I am just comparing birds to humans, so I am probably wrong, but I will see to it and find out more about birds anatomy.
All I know is that they have loungs accustomed to flying and if we succeeded in taking away their ability to fly, those loungs would probably change too. Their body temperature would then change because of this and who knows what else as a consequence... but I think I am a bit too radical with this.
I was thinking, were chickens always bad fliers or did human made them like that?
Uh, I've remember another thing. For some birds flying is necessity. Many species nest in the trees and they need to be able to fly in order to get to their nests. But here pops out the question, if there were no predators, would they start to nest on the ground, because according to the additional post of this subject it seems nesting in the trees is an accomodation to get out of reach of predators. Oh, I am so confused right now |
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Monday September 12, 2005 8:13 pm |
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Cathy
Kamikaze pilot
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 6673
Location: Omaha, NE USA |
I think being fully flighted is a necessity for wild birds, of course, well except maybe someplace like the Galapagos Islands (Very interesting Sue, thanks for printing that fact!).
But since many people keep birds at home with their wings clipped it's not necessary if they are being taken care of. I'm not trying to say that's BETTER for every bird, but obviously not necessary. |
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Monday September 12, 2005 8:28 pm |
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ksue
Flier
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 484
Location: Melbourne Australia |
Most birds in NZ do nest on the ground as NZ has no native mammals...there only prediter was other birds..(untill man came) one of my birds is a kakarikki from NZ and in the wild they nest on the ground but still fly (and very skillfully buy the way) I have recently clipped him (we had and incident) and I really reget it......he needed the exercice and he misses it so much he has no real confidence left........My tiel has no prob at all being clipped in fact i think he likes it better....so I think its not so much what we should or shouldnt do but if the actual individual bird (or even speices) will benifit from clipping........PS I find my birds in better feather condition when they have all their feathers...but I only have small birds ###kellie |
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Monday September 12, 2005 9:32 pm |
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shells picasso
Flier
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 900
Location: Sydney |
I think it depends on the birds circumstances and personality, Picasso living in a city and not having a lot of room to fly without hurting himself it's better for him to be clipped for his own safety, He's getting used to his environment now and wearing a harness/not startling easily I'd like to see him grow his flight feathers back, I'd like to take him to a park with lots of space for free flight but the risk is that he could get lost or preyed on by larger birds. All my smaller birds were flighted because there was the space and they understood the concept of windows, I prefer my birds to fly but I need to be realistic about how much it will benift/put at risk my bird/s. |
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Tuesday September 13, 2005 12:25 am |
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Greg Sujecki
Experienced flier
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 1650
Location: Australia,Melbourne |
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Good Question  ,for l myself had the same thought's going through my mind when you mentioned it Sue and found that there are a number of thing's to consider when a human clip's a bird's wings.I for one prefer to have Mylo clipped for if he wasn't he would be stuck in my house flying around which is great but that would be just another avairy to him in time and then eventually he would be bored from it.l have found with other bird's that l have had that they become destructive to find something new to do, so to speak or just look for attention by being annoying..he..he.  On the other had if Mylo had a companion friend like he has now Oliver, they settle and enjoy each other's company good, then human will find they (the bird's)are less interested in you for they spend more time with there bird companion than you and if you take one bird away from the other they will call to each other more than they would with you.In all it come's to time, the more time you spend with your bird in contact so to speak the better you will be.If you cannot spend enough time with your bird you should not don't clip it,so it will still appreciate you but have a good time exploring while you are not there I have found with Mylo l have to spend hours everyday(which l have no regret's  ), compared to other bird's l have had that weren't clipped like Lielow.Lielow would be house/garage bound but gave me more freedom, for he had his own adventure's to seek and alway's flew to my hand on command to have a rest on routine.I did find though Lielow chewed thing's around the house more because he could  where as Mylo is happy to go cruising in the car and enjoying the outside world beyond my household.So if your confused well yes,it's a (sorry Sue)CATCH 22 situation when it come's to this topic  |
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Tuesday September 13, 2005 11:33 am |
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Cathy
Kamikaze pilot
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 6673
Location: Omaha, NE USA |
Yep, I so agree Greg! It's a catch 22 situation, with pros & cons to each side.
Manu has always been clipped since I've had him, he came to me with his wings clipped. At one time I decided to let them grow, but he just kept flying into the walls of our small house, so hard! And even damaging his feathers, so I've opted to just keep them clipped.
Poppy on the other hand, has never had his wings clipped, & flies pretty well, but not often at all. Maybe only a handfull of times in a year! But of course, Poppy is not nearly as people friendly as Manu  |
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Tuesday September 13, 2005 12:27 pm |
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Cheeta
Moderator
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 7967
Location: Australia |
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wing clipping has always been a controversial topic of discussion with people with strong opinion on both side of the debate. I think it's really up to the individual bird and also the situation.
Like it has been mentioned, if a bigger bird in a small house cant fly safely without the risk of flying into things, or injuring themselves, then would it better to have it clipped or not?
In our case, we have an open living area where Apollo can do laps around the area without hurting himself, whereas if I was to take him over to my parents place, which is bigger in size, but aren't as open, he would hurt himself there as there are less space for him to navigate, and he usually comes tumbling down, which can be very dangerous, so I tried to discourage him from flying at all time when we're over there... now in saying that, Apollo would rather walk to places than fly there. It takes a lot of effort flying, and if there are no needs for him to fly, you'll see him climbing down the side of his cage/gym, and just waddle over to where I'm at, he could have flown, but he doens't.
Beside the facts that I think Apollo has an attitude problem due to the fact that he can fly! He wasn't half as bad before since he hadn't mastered the art of flying, but now, he is like the king with an attitude in the household, it's terrible. I think it'll help kerb the attitude problem if I was to decreaase his ability to fly a little. But that's just my opinion...
Oh, I am still very two minds about having Apollo's wing trimmed, but I know that i'll have to eventually for his own good. |
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Tuesday September 13, 2005 12:37 pm |
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shells picasso
Flier
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 900
Location: Sydney |
I prefer the trims where only about the first 5 or so feathers are cut at the first barbs (after they no longer have a blood supply) it looks neater and is more comfortable for the bird because the shorter feathers cover the cut quills, I like the idea of allowing them to get around but not go crazy, Picasso still likes to try his luck when we're out and tries to fly, I worry he will hurt himself because his wings are so badly trimmed he just plumets to the ground, so if he can I'll be allowing him to grow in some more flight feathers |
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Tuesday September 13, 2005 8:06 pm |
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Cheeta
Moderator
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 7967
Location: Australia |
Oh Shell, I do hope that Picasso's wing do grow back in again... |
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Wednesday September 14, 2005 3:09 pm |
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shells picasso
Flier
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 900
Location: Sydney |
Me too he loves trying to fly and I think having the extra mobility will be good for him, he's molted a few of the cut quills but he wont let me look to see if any are coming through, he's very precious about anyone touching his wings. |
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Wednesday September 14, 2005 9:47 pm |
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