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flycatcher
Bappie
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
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| PETA |
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www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.asp
I found this PETA site whilst cruising the internet... I scarcely believe HALF the stuff the mentioned on here. *shakes head*... the ideas some people have. |
Wednesday January 24, 2007 5:01 am |
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shirin
Moderator
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 7399
Location: Canada, Toronto |
Flycatcher I don't have time to read that page now (gotta head to school), but what is it exactly that you object to? I mean which ideas do you have a problem with? |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 12:22 pm |
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Fluffy Sue
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 10061
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Hmmm, I sometimes worry about PETA as well. They're ok for what they do, and I think it's ok as long as they don't harm people.
Sadly, the newspapers report serious crimes PETA & other activists commit. (Or branch-off organisations)
I don't think it's ok to achieve a goal through these measures.
There's a good saying: What you don't like yourself, don't do it to other people.  (In Dutch, it's not a good translation) |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 3:24 pm |
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Cathy
Kamikaze pilot
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 6671
Location: Omaha, NE USA |
You know, I've never paid a whole lot of attention to PETA in the past. Just never really kept up I guess. And have thought of them as some what extreme.
But, the more I read & hear, I am beginning to understand their logic more. I think I am going to try to do more research on what they're doing.
Sue, I do agree with what your saying, they shouldn't use violence against people to get their point across.
But I DO think it's time that people start caring more about their pets than about themselves. |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 3:35 pm |
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Fluffy Sue
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 10061
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That's one thing that should be done! People really should start caring more about their pets. Here, guinea pigs & hamsters are easy starters animals.
They are very very poorly cared for.
And also with spectres. My friend's mom put hers in the deepfreeze because she wanted to get rid of them!  |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 10:13 pm |
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Cathy
Kamikaze pilot
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 6671
Location: Omaha, NE USA |
Oh, I'm sorry ... what the heck are spectres ?
... besides freezing  |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 10:30 pm |
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Fluffy Sue
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 10061
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They're also called stick insect or walking stick.. |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 10:39 pm |
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flycatcher
Bappie
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
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quote:
Originally posted by shirin
Flycatcher I don't have time to read that page now (gotta head to school), but what is it exactly that you object to? I mean which ideas do you have a problem with?
SOME of the stuuf I see there point on. Animals definately need to be treated with more respect. But these people are hypocrites! They say animals SHOULDN'T be killed, as in hunting and fishing (both of which I do) but that it's fine to euthanize. If it's wrong to kill something quickly and surely (like with a bullet), but right to kill something as quickly and surely, only through a vet!
The idea of Cats being kept exclusivly indoors, and only put outside on leashes is a horrible idea- and it's fine to have feral cats on the loose when they're altered! I think they prefer it better!
And although Snoop would probably be happier if at liberty, she's perfectly fine and healthy as she is. She's certainly not lonely, or neglected, that's for sure.
Numerous things on the site are just-arg- the lack of thought/larger matters put into them is fustrating. If we stop the cattle industy, then what would we feed are dogs? hmmm? And meat is a perfectly natural food, healthy for people to eat, and what our ancestors used to eat. I fail to see anything wrong with people expressing their opinions, but these people are also forcing themselves onto others at the same time. |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 11:35 pm |
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shirin
Moderator
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 7399
Location: Canada, Toronto |
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Ok I just read the page, and I'm wondering what the original poster was shaking her/his head at 
Let me start out by saying that though I don't agree with some aspects of peta, in general I have a lot of respect for them. They bring about a lot of much needed awareness to serious animal liberation topics such as the cruelty of wearing fur, the herrendous things that go on on chicken farms, the cruelty of circuses, ect. They also work hard to campaign against and bring media attention to establishments that practice animal cruelty such as Kentucky Fried Chicken, Petco, ect. As a result of their campaigning, a lot of these establishments have changed their evil ways, and are practicing more humane methods of treating animals. So if it weren't for these so called "extremists", animals would have no rights or laws protecting them.
As far as Peta members harming other people, this is not what Peta stands for or advocates in any way. Just because some members might take things too far, it's not fair to condemn the whole organization, after they have done so much good for animals. It's like condemning all muslims, because a group of them are terrorists. Or condemning all men, because some of them are rapists.
Now as far as the page that was linked here... if you were shaking your head at the part about birds, I assure you those are all facts. The part about wild caught birds and methods used in transporting and smuggling them is unfortunately very true and in fact we are doing a research project on that very topic and its effects on wild bird populations and extinction in my Ornithology class right now. And for our research we only use well respected scientific journals which have nothing to do with Peta or animal activism. And the rest of it about birds used for breeding, and birds who don't sell at pet stores, and ones who go crazy with boredom and self mutilate are also very true, and I'd be surprised if anyone was unaware that these things are in fact the reality of the caged bird industry.
Yes, it's true that some parrots, those who are lucky enough to end up in loving and responsible and permenant homes may live happy lives. And yes, there are breeders who are responsible and don't cram their breeding birds in small breeding cages and are responsible with the kinds of homes they sell their birds to. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of parrots with their long lives and wild instincts don't end up so lucky, and they do end up being passed on from home to home or end up in shelters or are confined to small cages 24/7, malnourished and bored, and who eventually do end up plucking their feathers or mutilating their skin or being aggressive to their owners. There is no denying this, we've all seen it. And we all know that bird sanctuaries and shelters are over populated with these kinds of birds. So I really don't see what it is that didn't ring true to you in that article. |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 11:36 pm |
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flycatcher
Bappie
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
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http://www.petakillsanimals.co.....nimals.cfm
Here's another site I found.... It discusses PETA members 'reaching children'.
Shirin, how can you not see what's wrong about the bird topic. I know that birds are illegally exported, but there are also those that aren't, and that not a crime. The also say about dogs not to buy from breeders, and that there are no responsible breeders. Again, some aren't, some ARE. On the hunting/fishing topic, they say it causes fish pain to be hooked... NOT. Fish have no nerves in their mouth/throat, or else they'd be in agony because of some of the things they eat. Sure, the occasional fish gets hooked in the gill, or swallows it, but neither myself nor anyone I know (though I'm sure there are those out there who are) just tear out the hook and let the fish go. We keep and kill them. yes, KILL. Hunting is important- with humans cutting into deer territory, deer are at risk of starvation. Hunting kills, sure, but much less than a great famine which is garunteed to result if the deer are allowed to over populate. Preventing overpopulation also helps prevent the diseases (they claim control the population) which could wipe out most of the population in an area.
There's the SPCA also who helps animal rights, and is much more popular, but also get results, and don't go insane claiming they're animal lovers, but killing them, and trying to stop people from having pets at the same time/ |
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Wednesday January 24, 2007 11:54 pm |
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shirin
Moderator
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 7399
Location: Canada, Toronto |
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quote:
Originally posted by flycatcher
quote:
Originally posted by shirin
Flycatcher I don't have time to read that page now (gotta head to school), but what is it exactly that you object to? I mean which ideas do you have a problem with?
SOME of the stuuf I see there point on. Animals definately need to be treated with more respect. But these people are hypocrites! They say animals SHOULDN'T be killed, as in hunting and fishing (both of which I do) but that it's fine to euthanize. If it's wrong to kill something quickly and surely (like with a bullet), but right to kill something as quickly and surely, only through a vet!
The idea of Cats being kept exclusivly indoors, and only put outside on leashes is a horrible idea- and it's fine to have feral cats on the loose when they're altered! I think they prefer it better!
And although Snoop would probably be happier if at liberty, she's perfectly fine and healthy as she is. She's certainly not lonely, or neglected, that's for sure.
Numerous things on the site are just-arg- the lack of thought/larger matters put into them is fustrating. If we stop the cattle industy, then what would we feed are dogs? hmmm? And meat is a perfectly natural food, healthy for people to eat, and what our ancestors used to eat. I fail to see anything wrong with people expressing their opinions, but these people are also forcing themselves onto others at the same time.
Where did you see that they said hunting and fishing is wrong? I think you are misunderstanding their philosophy. They do not say that eating meat itself is wrong. I am a vegetarian, and I never tell people that eating meat is wrong and I assure you that I am by no means a hypocrite. Vegetariansm is a boycott of the meat industry because of the inhumane and cruel ways that animals are raised and slaughtered on factory farms, it in no way says that eating meat is wrong or unnatural. It's not wrong to eat animals, but it's wrong to make them suffer. Although I despise hunting for sport or pleasure, I do think that hunting for food is a lot more humane than buying meat that was raised on a factory farm. And I do believe that PETA's campaigns are also against the meat industry for the reasons I have described. They base a lot of their beliefs on the book "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer, who is one of the greatest philosophers of our time, and Singer himself is not against eating meat but against the meat industry and animal cruelty and suffering. And the whole thing about euthanasia, animals have to be euthanized because breeders keep breeding animals and overpopulation the shelters, and people refuse to get their animals spayed or neutored. The shelters can only do so much. They don't have unlimited money or workers, and sometimes it's more humane to euthanize a dog for example than to keep it in a cage in an overcrowded shelter and let it suffer for the rest of its life. I guess that's why some people think life in prison is worse than the death penalty, because in prison you suffer more. |
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Thursday January 25, 2007 12:00 am |
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shirin
Moderator
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 7399
Location: Canada, Toronto |
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quote:
Originally posted by flycatcher
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petaKillsAnimals.cfm
Here's another site I found.... It discusses PETA members 'reaching children'.
Shirin, how can you not see what's wrong about the bird topic. I know that birds are illegally exported, but there are also those that aren't, and that not a crime.
I guess the thing you have to ask yourself is, yes some birds do fine in captivity, but what about those that suffer? Do the lives of those not count? Are they to be just collateral damage so that us humans can fulfill our selfish desires of having exotic pets? Just something to think about. It's fine if you don't agree with those philosophies, but I think it's unfair of you to say they are wrong and thoughtless, because believe me, I did a lot of soul searching, studied ethics and philosophy and continue to do a lot of reasearch, and I have come to the conclusion that birds belong in the wild, free as they were meant to be, not in cages. You don't have to agree with me, but please don't call me thoughtless. |
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Thursday January 25, 2007 12:08 am |
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flycatcher
Bappie
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
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It discusses hunting and fishing on the Wildlife page, and Veggie page.
Do you mean you agrre that say, cats shouldn't be let outdoors except when restrained, and birds shouldn't be kept as pets.
I KNOW birds would rather be free, (who wouldn't) but things in life happen, and a bird can live a fine andhappy life if cared for properly (key word there). PETA seems to be attacking all hunters, fishers, bird keepers, dog breeders, etc., or at least that's what it seems like to me when I read it.
Animals used for commercial food can be killed quickly, and humanely too, not just as they say they are!
They liken animals so much to people, in which case, why do they put them to sleep? The amount of animals they put to sleep (who wind up in their shelters, or 'rescues' or whatever) could be likened to mass murders, if we're gonna go at that angle. |
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Thursday January 25, 2007 12:27 am |
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Fluffy Sue
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 10061
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Ehm, Shirin.. PETA has other reasons to become a vegan.. It's because we can choose to eat something else and (according to the PETAsite) still get all the nutrition we need. (Which is something I don't believe..  But that's just me)
It's also because they say we're not meat-eaters but vegans. I just read that they say that we're vegans because we have a long digestive tract and don't have teeth made for meat eaters.
I saw a FAQ list of them and they stated that ANY eating of animals is BAD! Even if you hunt them yourself. It doesn't matter if you have treated them correctly or not.
Last edited by Fluffy Sue on Thursday January 25, 2007 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thursday January 25, 2007 12:49 am |
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Fluffy Sue
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 10061
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quote:
Originally posted by shirin
As far as Peta members harming other people, this is not what Peta stands for or advocates in any way. Just because some members might take things too far, it's not fair to condemn the whole organization, after they have done so much good for animals. It's like condemning all muslims, because a group of them are terrorists.
That's true.. And I'm sure there are some ok PETAmembers out there.. (I think the majority of them)
I guess you always hear the bad things in the news..
I think the best thing PETA could do is inform people, not judge them. WHen I saw the video of some merino woolsheeps in Australia it made me feel sooo horrible. I won't get any wool anymore. |
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Thursday January 25, 2007 12:55 am |
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